"Penal substitution" so the most dense malefactor can understand it? I don't understand what people believe judgment day is. It seems to me like the most prevalent view is that judgment day is at one's death. At death, the 'good'/the believers in Jesus float up into heaven or are escorted there by angels. And a nonbeliever is sucked into 'hell'.
OR, all souls are held in a holding place until judgment day, when en masse, all unsaved are stamped "guilty"... Perhaps I am a 13 year old girl, and I find myself awakened from my grave, and I find myself beside and receiving the same sentence as the worst despot, torturer and rapist of small children. It's simply unavoidable and God can do nothing about it.
OR, I have been conscious since, perhaps 1000 B.C. but now standing before God's throne, I am declared guilty. There is no trial, defense nor advocate. It's unavoidable, the means of my redemption was during my lifetime. I missed it, and God can do nothing about it. I will be tormented forever and ever, perhaps at the center of the earth, while there is great rejoicing going on above me, where everyone's joy is complete. I am forgotten by all including God. Or perhaps I perish and am no more. Not mourned, for all's joy is complete.
Then why the dramatic image of Jesus hanging upon the cross as a penal substitute? When living during 1000 B.C. I never heard about that, nor was ever exposed to the image.
I've been studying the bible for almost 40 years. I used to use the big Strong's books, but now of course there's great bible study aids and interlinear version (with links to the original words used) at my very fingertips. These have always impacted me far more than any teachings or long held doctrines. The Word itself, above, what others say the Word says.
So why 'penal substitute'/redemption if I am never exposed to it, but am simply stamped guilty and off I go? Some will say, nature/creation was your witness, you should have figured it out. Ba-bye.
Here's what I've come to believe.. Jesus is the Passover Lamb, belief equals obedience, His blood on the doorposts of my awareness saves me from (the angel of) death. He is the un-leavened (pristine) bread of life / the Truth. With no dilution/corruption. And He is "the Firstfruits of God". - 1 Cor 15:22-23 "..in Christ made alive, but each in their own order, Christ the firstfruits.."
His first advent perfectly fulfilled ancient Israel's Spring Holy Days (see Lev 23; Numbers 28,29) of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Firstfruits.
Then between Spring and Fall, Pentecost, when the promised (great) gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out (ultimately?) upon all flesh.
What about the Fall Holy Days? (Lev 23; Numbers 28,29) -- Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles? Are they fulfilled by His long second advent? The pattern of them is Trumpets, upon the first day of the new month/moon, and 10 days later is Day Of Atonement. And 5 days after that is Tabernacles, which lasts a whole week, Lev 23:34.
If Trumpets - surely(?) is His return and the Trumps of apocalypse, then 10 days/1000 years(?) later is Judgment 'Day'. And 5 days/500 years after that begins Tabernacles, when the Almighty Father says - Rev 21 - He will now Tabernacle with mankind upon Earth made new!
Note: "...the rest of the dead come not back to life until the thousand years are ended.." Rev 20:5
Doesn't this sound like 1 Cor 15? - 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: [1]Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming[2]. 24 Then comes the end, when [3]He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Rev 21:5 - "Behold I make all things new".
Matthew 13:33 - “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in 3 measures of meal till it was all leavened.”
I guess I should do a google search, see if there's anyone else in all the world who believes this - that the Ancient fall holy days are a shadow and pattern of Jesus' long second advent, from last days and His return, to when God says "behold I make all things new.. I will now tabernacle with mankind upon Earth.." He will be "all in all". [Glory!]
Isaiah 11:7 - "The cows will graze among bears; cubs and calves will lie down together, and lions will eat grass like the ox."
Note: It's DOA for the doa?! 1 Tim 4:10, Jn 12:32, Philippians 2:10-11, &tc..
OR, all souls are held in a holding place until judgment day, when en masse, all unsaved are stamped "guilty"... Perhaps I am a 13 year old girl, and I find myself awakened from my grave, and I find myself beside and receiving the same sentence as the worst despot, torturer and rapist of small children. It's simply unavoidable and God can do nothing about it.
OR, I have been conscious since, perhaps 1000 B.C. but now standing before God's throne, I am declared guilty. There is no trial, defense nor advocate. It's unavoidable, the means of my redemption was during my lifetime. I missed it, and God can do nothing about it. I will be tormented forever and ever, perhaps at the center of the earth, while there is great rejoicing going on above me, where everyone's joy is complete. I am forgotten by all including God. Or perhaps I perish and am no more. Not mourned, for all's joy is complete.
Then why the dramatic image of Jesus hanging upon the cross as a penal substitute? When living during 1000 B.C. I never heard about that, nor was ever exposed to the image.
I've been studying the bible for almost 40 years. I used to use the big Strong's books, but now of course there's great bible study aids and interlinear version (with links to the original words used) at my very fingertips. These have always impacted me far more than any teachings or long held doctrines. The Word itself, above, what others say the Word says.
So why 'penal substitute'/redemption if I am never exposed to it, but am simply stamped guilty and off I go? Some will say, nature/creation was your witness, you should have figured it out. Ba-bye.
Here's what I've come to believe.. Jesus is the Passover Lamb, belief equals obedience, His blood on the doorposts of my awareness saves me from (the angel of) death. He is the un-leavened (pristine) bread of life / the Truth. With no dilution/corruption. And He is "the Firstfruits of God". - 1 Cor 15:22-23 "..in Christ made alive, but each in their own order, Christ the firstfruits.."
His first advent perfectly fulfilled ancient Israel's Spring Holy Days (see Lev 23; Numbers 28,29) of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Firstfruits.
Then between Spring and Fall, Pentecost, when the promised (great) gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out (ultimately?) upon all flesh.
What about the Fall Holy Days? (Lev 23; Numbers 28,29) -- Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles? Are they fulfilled by His long second advent? The pattern of them is Trumpets, upon the first day of the new month/moon, and 10 days later is Day Of Atonement. And 5 days after that is Tabernacles, which lasts a whole week, Lev 23:34.
If Trumpets - surely(?) is His return and the Trumps of apocalypse, then 10 days/1000 years(?) later is Judgment 'Day'. And 5 days/500 years after that begins Tabernacles, when the Almighty Father says - Rev 21 - He will now Tabernacle with mankind upon Earth made new!
Note: "...the rest of the dead come not back to life until the thousand years are ended.." Rev 20:5
Doesn't this sound like 1 Cor 15? - 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: [1]Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming[2]. 24 Then comes the end, when [3]He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Rev 21:5 - "Behold I make all things new".
Matthew 13:33 - “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in 3 measures of meal till it was all leavened.”
I guess I should do a google search, see if there's anyone else in all the world who believes this - that the Ancient fall holy days are a shadow and pattern of Jesus' long second advent, from last days and His return, to when God says "behold I make all things new.. I will now tabernacle with mankind upon Earth.." He will be "all in all". [Glory!]
Isaiah 11:7 - "The cows will graze among bears; cubs and calves will lie down together, and lions will eat grass like the ox."
Note: It's DOA for the doa?! 1 Tim 4:10, Jn 12:32, Philippians 2:10-11, &tc..
